Supporting Youth After Overdose Loss with Lynne Hughes from Comfort Zone Camp

What does grief look like in a young person, and how do we support them when that grief stems from something as devastating as an overdose?

As fentanyl-related deaths continue to rise among youth, more and more young people are navigating sudden, unimaginable loss. In this episode, we explore what it takes to truly show up for them, not just with sympathy, but with safe spaces, compassion, and people who are willing to listen.

We talk about how youth process grief differently than adults and how community becomes the foundation for long-term sustainable healing.

This is a reminder that every loss for a young person carries a story of love and the hope that someone will meet them where they are.

Early bird pricing for the Champions for Youth Summit ends January 9! Lock in your discounted ticket now and save your seat for three days of powerful learning, connection, and inspiration at championsforyouthsummit.org.

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Transcript

C.J. Stermer (00:00)
Hi Lin, thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate your time.

Lynne Hughes (00:03)
Hi, thanks for having me.

C.J. Stermer (00:04)
Lynn, you have this amazing organization called Conference Zone Camp, lovingly known as CZC, where you provide this amazing opportunity for young people to

be able to process grief in different ways in a way that's safe to help provide them the tools they need to be able to move forward. I'm very curious to hear more about the organization, but I'm even more curious to hear about how did an organization like this get started? Where did this idea come from?

Lynne Hughes (00:27)
Well, for me, it was kind of professional and personal intersecting and you kind of realize your whole life was in training for that moment. But I grew up in Michigan and when I was young, my mom died from a blood clot when I was nine years old. It was very fluky and I was the only nine year old girl around who had lost their mom. And then two and a half years later, my dad died from a heart attack. And it was the day before I started junior high, which was a big milestone. And again, I didn't know anybody who'd lost one parent, let alone two parents.

And it isolated me and it separated me. And I picked up on the fact people were very uncomfortable if I talked about my parents dying, they would pull back and I'd end up comforting them and making sure they were okay with my loss. And so I just got the message to not bring it up. And then as I got older still, it was hard to be at sleepovers and care about the things that the girls my age were dealing with when I felt like I was dealing with United Nations. I went to a regular summer camp

and loved it. And then in college, I wanted to be a cool camp counselor and like I had, And simultaneously, I also believe that the death of my parents happened for a reason, didn't know what that was. But eventually I went on to create, combine my love of summer camp with an unmet need in society, supporting grieving children, and Comfort Zone Camp was born.

C.J. Stermer (01:38)
So it essentially just kind of came out of a necessity. Something didn't exist. And hey, I'm going to create this because it's something that young people need. I find that that's a lot of really great stuff comes to be, right? You see this need, you fulfill it. And I think that's a really good message for people. It's like when you need something, just make it happen. So you have this camp. We're helping kids with grief. Your own personal journey led you to this. Tell me a little bit more about this camp. What do kids go through when

they get exposed to this camp.

Lynne Hughes (02:05)
first of they show up and there's 60 other kids there, they have that aha in the parking lot and arriving like, my gosh, every other kid here is because they've lost somebody. It's, know, I'm not the only one. So they're forever different right away just upon getting there. And then they keep having more of those aha moments throughout the weekend. We do regular typical camp fun with bonfires and s'mores and free time and fishing and swimming arts and crafts, all that good stuff.

But a unique thing about our camp is every child gets paired with an adult mentor. We call them big buddies and the campers little buddies. And we try to pair them up by hobbies and interests and sometimes even by loss type. And grieving kids tend to be a little attention starved because mom or dad are preoccupied understandably with their own grief. So here, that big buddy's sole job is to put a smile on that child's face and help them get back to being a kid again.

So under that attention and they're kind of like this for the love and support from the big buddy, the kids start to blossom. And then additionally, another thing unique about our program is that we do intentional time to work on their grief. So we have small support groups, we call them healing circles, and they're sprinkled in throughout the weekend. There's four of them. They're about an hour and a half long each. We break the kids down by age. The healing circle leaders are or specialists.

that you have the same kids and the same leader the whole time. And so they're invited to tell their stories. It's often the first time anybody's ever asked you know, who died, how they died. A lot of times they bring a picture and they pass it around or they share a favorite memory. Or right now, if we were doing one, they'd be talking about going into the holidays and you know, how to navigate that and how to stay connected to their loved ones through the holidays. get what they need and they and a child might share, know, my dad died by.

overdose and another kid leans in and says, me too. You know, and they get those me too moments and they get lighter and brighter throughout the weekend because they get validated whatever they're thinking or feeling is okay and get back to being a kid again. They make fast friends and then they get to come back over and over again. This is not a one and done camp. So we have kids come year over year and this becomes their place where people get it and they don't have to be doing badly to come.

This is just this beautiful grief utopia where kids can come and be around people who get it, which frees them to heal and blossom and grow. it's pretty beautiful. It's pretty amazing.

C.J. Stermer (04:24)
Yeah, that sounds beautiful. It's this this power of storytelling, right? People talk about storytelling in different capacities and ways that people could tell stories. But this is an indication of how storytelling can actually be really healing and can really help a young person process. Right. And what's happening now? You talk about these repeated camps. Are these camps a long term thing? Is this like, it's just a quick weekend. How do you find that these camps for grieving kids need to be broken up in a way that is effective for them?

Lynne Hughes (04:49)
it's a great question. So the kids get to attend annually. Sometimes they get to attend more than once. Grief is something that's not, you know, six months or a year and you're over it. You know, it's a lifelong journey. And because as they grow and mature, they're going to process and have a different lens. They're going to understand the permanence of death. They're going to, you know, experience different milestones without their loved ones. So

year to have them come back and be able to bring it to camp and process it. And they go from often being on the fringe and maybe hesitant to talk the first time. And then multiple times they go from, you know, being eager to jump in to even being the leaders and telling other kids like, you're going to like this, or let me show you, you know, how you share your story or talk about your loved one. so it's this but we like them to come back over and over again.

And I'm a big believer every time you tell your story, you heal. And every time you hear somebody else's story, you heal. So there's that energy sometimes other people need to hear what you're saying. And other times for you, every time you tell your story, you go towards it and you depower it. And it just becomes part of your DNA versus those kids and also adults who never go towards their grief. They just become older and people with baggage.

You know, and grief comes, it's not going anywhere. It's a constant companion on your shoulder. It just leaks out sideways or emotionally or health issues in different ways. we, know, by going towards it, it actually depowers it. And it's just a big catalyst in their healing.

C.J. Stermer (06:01)
All

Yeah, think it's a good point, humans are not linear. Humans are not one size fits all. We don't compartmentalize things, right? Like everyone processes grief differently. and it's good to hear that, you know, the repetition of the story, I think I agree with you, is you tell your story over and over again. It helps you process, it helps you heal. And you give more kids this idea of the me too, right? This camaraderie, this I'm not alone, this feeling of I have that support, even if it's someone like my peers, right? Like I can think of many things in my life or

Lynne Hughes (06:19)
Yes.

C.J. Stermer (06:41)
or maybe something wasn't going well, maybe I've been in grief, but okay, I'm not the only one. talk to me a little bit more about of this grief. Do kids process grief the same way as adults? What makes this different than what adults would experience and how they're able to process grief?

Lynne Hughes (06:57)
Kids, you know, process grief completely differently than adults, which is why adults miss it and dismiss it because it doesn't look like adult we think of adult grief, picture somebody in mourning, right? And they're often wearing black. They're often very sad, an indefinite amount of time. They're often not able to keep up with their everyday activities because it's just overwhelming because it's all they can do. The grief is all consuming. Well, kids don't grieve like that.

Kids grieve in little short They may be perfectly fine and then they're out at recess and they fall and skin their knee. And then they're crying for their mom who just died. And then you put the bandaid on and they're off playing ball again. And if you blink, you miss it. But they're grieving, they just don't sit with it 24 seven. And it takes a long time for them to like fall and skin their knee and just cry because their knee hurt. know, it oftentimes once something happens, it's a trigger to like,

go morph into other things, but they're able to compartmentalize it and get back they're often able to keep up with sports and curricular activity and grades, but they're grieving. And depending on their age, they often don't know anybody else that this has happened to. They don't know that they're going to be okay. They don't have that lens. They don't often understand.

you know, what death is permanence. so ⁓ it's just a very confusing time. teachers, parents, ⁓ clergy, so many adults are not trained, even therapists, on how to navigate kids' grief and to know what it looks like. It could be headaches or stomach aches, or, you know, they don't have the words to

every time I think about my loved one, get a tummy ache and connect that mind body. So it can be very isolating and sad for them.

C.J. Stermer (08:33)
Yeah, I think you bring up a good point is there's all kinds of training out there. you have people in social service, you have people that work in clergy, people that are mental health professionals. But I don't know that I've ever met a mental health professional or someone that says I'm trained specifically in helping a child deal with loss. So that's a good point. I don't think I've ever realized how few resources there seems to be, especially when I do these interviews and I talk to these amazing people that do this work out there.

I've not heard that. have this issue that's coming up in our country a lot with the rise drug overdoses, especially in young people, whether that be from fentanyl opioids, a lot of other substances out there that are causing these issues. And we are unfortunately experiencing a lot of overdose and death young people.

And I'm curious to see if you all have seen an increase of kids coming to camp that are dealing with loss Whether it's someone that's lost someone like a parent, or if there's a young person, maybe has lost a peer in school. Are you all seeing an increase as well in kids grieving at camp

Lynne Hughes (09:34)
We are, since 2022, we've about a 30 % spike applying for camp because of loss by overdose. And I think you hit on a bunch of the reasons, but including just the mental health crisis with youth. I don't think that kids going through tough stuff, whether it was COVID, whether it's social media and bullying and self-esteem, all these issues that we're not teaching kids.

coping skills or how to unfair and their first bad and they're har their others. But often type of a substance becaus tools on how to do it. and know, and everythi instantaneous. So they'r doesn't feel good. I want So, you know, I do think correlation as well as what

huge spike in drug use and suicides in our so, yeah, we're definitely seeing that and helping people to understand that and to talk about it, talking helps, talking depowers it, giving people a community and destigmatizing it. all that led to, a camp specifically for overdose only camp.

three years ago. So we've one camp a year for three years now to specifically destigmatize it and let those kids specifically come together find out they're not alone and what are the unique nuances to loss by overdose.

C.J. Stermer (10:57)
So it seems to be a little bit of difference and some nuances then on how we have to approach, know, not every grief to that point is the same, right? Not every death is the same and how kids experience that. So I know when you and I talked before, you had mentioned something really interesting about, you know, how when you all started in your early days, there was 9-11.

right? And what kids had to do to process the grief of losing someone through this really massive tragedy that never really happened in our generation before. And then you had to pivot, as you mentioned, COVID, right? And how those deaths were different. And then it actually changed the behavior of young people and then these families. And then how do we deal with the death of losing a parent to illness at unmasked scales like that? And now you're having to pivot again, to deal with loss in a very different way and way that kids, you know, at least in my generation, we have not seen.

deaths coming like this from overdoses. So you've had to piff through all of this. So there seems to be some nuances that you all have had to adapt in the way that you approach talk to me a little bit about some of those nuances. What makes processing this grief for these camps a little bit different?

Lynne Hughes (11:58)
all, the stigma. The stigma is just so great and it's often somewhat of a shame factor with it too. Sometimes these kids aren't told right away depending on their age or depending on the parent or guardian that their own shame. So they might not even know right away that it was an overdose. so they're grieving, they might've been told it was a heart attack.

And then a few years later, they're told it was an overdose. So then they have to go back and regrieve it a second time with understanding this information and also, you know, hopefully not, hopefully appreciating the parent or guardian's reasoning for like delaying telling them. another nuance is that a lot of these kids are told when they overdose, it was the first time that they had used that particular substance.

C.J. Stermer (12:26)
Wow.

Lynne Hughes (12:40)
And that really isn't often the case. Occasionally it is, but often there is addiction piece that's gone on with it. so there's also, again, they're not getting the full truth and full information. And again, sometimes it's by age and understanding and being able to process it. And sometimes it is the parents or guardians. So there's a lot of those unique nuances and then realizing like the parent or guardian doesn't want to talk about it or eventually they're learning that it's a different version of the truth or their loved one.

that they're hearing versus what they're learning to be who that person really was or what their addiction origin was, things like that. they're picking up on, know, maybe I shouldn't tell this truth and I have to hide it. so, you know, kind of like breaking that down for them and other kids may be experiencing that same type of storytelling or having to process the loss twice when they learned about it separately.

There's a lot of understanding addiction. We try to also break that down, they didn't do this to them and it wasn't anything because of them and they didn't wanna leave them. So understanding that and understanding no one chooses addiction and that addiction is a thing. If you get there, that it's bigger than you and trying to walk them through what addiction means. And then for those kids who do understand what addiction means, they're also very...

concerned about taking med or other people in their loved ones getting addic and especially now with that some kids are experi seeing their peers experiment in this big conflict, t they say something? Do how much do they put their and tell their own own heartbreak and their o additional people. So ther

process.

C.J. Stermer (14:21)
Yeah, it sounds like there's a lot more layers than what we may typically think of when we're talking about grief. Some of the, I think it's very interesting. grieving twice. I didn't, I didn't really think about that. Right. Like if we're not being upfront about what happened and we're trying to dance around the topic, Because of the stigma or

Lynne Hughes (14:23)
once.

C.J. Stermer (14:39)
I can think of a variety of reasons that were it was one thing, but then they learn it's another and you have to grieve it twice. And that must be really hard, especially for young person. it's like being upfront and honest about what happens seems to be something that's actually really probably one of the more forthcoming, probably better strategies,

Lynne Hughes (14:55)
Yes, and you can tell them based on their own level of understanding, but you can use words, you if a child, maybe, you know, was eight, nine, 10, and you don't think they're really gonna understand you know, they were taking medication, they didn't take it the right way, and it caused body to shut can explain it without saying it in kid language.

C.J. Stermer (15:11)
Right, right.

Lynne Hughes (15:13)
Based on that, but you could start off by saying that so they have some level of understanding. We hit the very first overdose camp that we did three years ago. We had a mom with three kids and she signed her kids up and she had not told her kids and they and maybe like eight. And our person on staff said, listen, they're coming to this camp. We're gonna reference everybody here being here for the same loss. And this is a camp for over, like you've got to tell them, you've got to tell them before they get here. Well, she didn't. And she literally had our therapist on staff.

stand with the mom and we made you know, tell them on, and those kids were devastated all weekend because they're whole last few years of understanding their dad's loss. it down and helping the adults too, to understand how to talk to kids.

C.J. Stermer (15:46)
Wow.

Right. So it's, it's a very 360 family thing. It's not just the one kid, but you actually also have to help the parents. Cause I can only imagine what it'd be like telling your mother about maybe a brother or sister or another family member and how hard that is to be able to tell your child or children what happened. another layer that I thought was interesting too, there's all this behavioral aspect that also has to change. It's this, well, what would happen to me or what happens if I do this or,

my friends are experiencing this, would it happen to me? It's all this a lot of more what ifs that are completely different what ifs when I talk to other people about deaths in their family it's just, it's different questions I hear that you're saying that they ask And those different questions require different process. It requires different conversation. Very, very interesting.

Lynne Hughes (16:35)
Yes.

C.J. Stermer (16:42)
So these camps are doing.

incredible things to help young people. So it's really interesting to see how we have to treat the conversations differently. I'm curious now when these young people go through these conversations and have these experiences, do you find that these camps have really changed their kind of positive outcomes do you see when these young people go through this healing experience?

Lynne Hughes (17:03)
A big motto of mine and that I try to weave into campus, there's always something good from something bad. It may not be obvious but if you wait for it and you look for it, it will appear. And a part of that is there are gifts from loss. So you see the world with different colors and textures and you appreciate people and you apologize sooner, you tell them you love them. parent different, you're a different friend.

So doing this long enough now doing it for 26 years, we've seen so many kids, one a third of our volunteers now are former campers wanting to pay forward what was given to them, which is a ripple I never saw coming, so many of those kids are going into these healing and helping professions.

that it took a little while to be like, wait a minute, there's another one. So they're going into teaching, they're school counselors, they're therapists. Sometimes they're even grief therapists that they're the beginning of those bright lights of understanding. they're nonprofit workers. So it's just a really interesting thing how many of them, and it's very anecdotal, it happens a lot. we have two... ⁓

former campers on and they'll be front and center all weekend. And these kids don't know that they're former campers. And then at the very closing ceremony, they'll say, hey, I was you.

I was seven years old or 16 years old sitting in your just want you to know I'm okay and you could be okay too. saying, I wouldn't undo what happened to me. I'm not saying I wouldn't have loved it growing up with my dad or my love, now because I chose to be okay and all these good things started happening to me

C.J. Stermer (18:24)
Wow, what a strong message.

Lynne Hughes (18:32)
great people came into my life or different situations that wouldn't have happened if my loved one hadn't died that I wouldn't undo because they all shaped me to the person that I am today. And I like who I am And I'm okay. And I'm even living a good life and a happy life. So the kids you see these like, aha, know, moments it's very inspiring.

for them to see that.

C.J. Stermer (18:53)
Yeah, what a beautiful, long term ripple effect And now this paying it forward. I love that. That's so beautiful. This unintentional paying it forward and then creating this opportunity for the kids to see, that can be me. I will be OK. And I'm seeing that in front of me with someone that I've gotten close to, someone that I trust and have built a relationship with through this process. That's actually really,

really beautiful. Lynn, you'd also talked about when we spoke about giving kids the tools that they need to be able to process grief and that, as time goes on or something else happens that they're able to have the tools in their toolbox to be able to process Talk to me a little bit more about the tools.

Lynne Hughes (19:29)
So grief, one, it's a choice to survive it. when we try to encourage them to make that choice, it's not going to be like they turn 18 and one day they're just magically fixed and never have a tough moment. So we do try to anticipate them are you ever going to have a tough moment outside of camp? Yes. Do we wish that you wouldn't? Yes. And sometimes it's because of grief that you're going to have a tough moment. Sometimes it's not. But sometimes you might fail a test. You not play in soccer that day.

might break with you, whatever it may, and then all of a sudden, and yet again, it can start this spiral of, and I miss my loved one, what can we stop the spiral and keep something as a bad moment and also grow that resiliency muscle these grieving kids have done tough stuff, right? They're coming to camp, they're doing the work.

And by doing the work, they know that tough stuff can happen to them, but still something good can come out of something bad. And even having them identify what is something good that's happened to you since your loved one died. And for some of them, it's even, they have to think about, well, I came to camp and I have all these great new friends that I keep in touch with, right? mean, there is something for all of them. that, so we're putting these friendships in the toolkit with them. What are the things when you're having a tough day that put a smile on your face, that bring you joy?

having them all identify that, you know, it be talking to a friend, could be exercise, could be playing, you know, with their dog, drawing, gaming, you know, whatever it is. We're like, okay, put that in your imaginary toolkit to take with you. Music, music is a great mood elevator. what is a song like a put your armor on, I got this pump you up song, what's your hype put that in their imaginary toolkit. And we'll say things like, sometimes we need

somebody who gives us really great advice. who's somebody who's a good truth teller that sometimes things are just bigger than us? So who is somebody we can go to if something's bigger than us? Okay, put that in their toolkit. and not every kid, that is having tough moments is having these like thought about and been intentional about what are the things that they can do on those tough days.

And these kids know that surviving the loss of a parent, sibling, close loved the or one of the most hardest things that they're ever gonna deal with in their life. So if they feel like they're navigating that okay, and that they are being okay and still finding how to be happy despite this unfair thing that happened to them, when the next something bad happens, they're gonna be able to put it in perspective and go, yeah, this stinks, but I know what really stinks. There are tough things.

C.J. Stermer (21:48)
Right.

Lynne Hughes (21:49)
So they have that perspective, which in a lot of ways is giving them this leg up, that they are knowing that resilient. They know that they've got this inner strength and wisdom that their peers who haven't ever experienced any tough thing don't have that.

C.J. Stermer (22:02)
Right, we're making them more prepared for the future. I love this whole idea of the toolbox analogy that you use. making sure that they have what they need. accessible to them to understand that you know what to do.

Lynne Hughes (22:06)
Yes.

C.J. Stermer (22:17)
you've been through something already and use that experience to your advantage to make yourself okay. That's such a powerful message, a powerful sentiment to really help these kids as they leave to understand that you can keep going no matter what is.

You know, Lynn, I was reading in a USA today article about comfort zone camp.

⁓ about an overdose experience that you all went through with the family. And there was this beautiful young person named Miles who went through these camps and the ways that he was processing things long-term. He described this ⁓ idea of Sarah's house where he was filling this house with photos and toys and things that could help feel connected to her. And it was a really amazing article for those listening. Please go to comfortzonecamp.org, click about us and in the news,

It's a really great story But Lynn, talk to me a little bit about Miles, kids like that. How do things like this after they leave the camp and these actual, these tools, right? Talk to me a little bit more about this outcome and how that's really helped someone like Miles.

Lynne Hughes (23:10)
Yeah, you know, Miles was really young when his sister died. I think he was like two, maybe two years old. And so again, he's growing up in the shadow of like, you know, remembering and hearing more, more memories about them from other people than he's going to have firsthand. So he got ripped off and his whole family has forever changed. And he's forever changed because of this empty seat at the table and empty place in the family because of the loss of his sister.

And so how to give him those words to stay connected to her how to give him those memories and how to make him still feel like, he's got a connection to her. So we try to do that at camp to like teach them how to go, go towards that loss, but also towards like thinking know, whether it's every day or it's a holiday, but like how, are the things we can do to be intentional? So to have a Sarah's house and have a place and to have different,

memories and connections that are special to you or even just a place to kind of go and be and sit if you're grieving or you want to feel close to them or talk to them came and was at a completely you know different point was completely confused you know about his grief and what to do with that other than it was heavy and sad and people around him were really heavy and sad

C.J. Stermer (24:06)
Right.

Lynne Hughes (24:18)
him to have those words and those tools and also people who understood and helped him, find the words to how he was feeling and gone from being totally confused about it to now going towards it and being intentional to stay connected to his sister. I mean, anyways, it's just really beautiful.

C.J. Stermer (24:32)
Right. Being intentional. I like how you put that. Being intentional about how we're helping. kids like Miles can be more intentional about what they're doing to continue that memory and to be able to process in their own way. Lynn, one final thought. We talk a lot about here about empowerment and how do we get folks, whether they be educators, practitioners, people that work in social service, all sorts of individuals that work with young people around

around the nation. And we always try to get them to say, you know, how do we empower people to think differently? How do we continue to approach people to be more impactful in their communities to take a mindset that you all have taken?

Lynne Hughes (25:05)
find what you're passionate about. there's so many different needs and causes in the world. know, mine happens to be helping grieving children and to be helping children with mental health and but there's so many needs. So, go after it. wide open with it, somebody once told me the reason my comfort zone is successful is because of my passion and that passion is real and it's genuine and contagious. And people want to be around other passionate.

people and I was very humb passionate, yes that, but so, your passion. I mean, about comfort zone, my chec at the grocery store to m restaurant, you know, who to me, you know, whether a volunteer one day or the we exist in case they ever a grieving child in

And failure was never an option for us. I was so passionate, I was willing to do a lot of crazy things and crazy hours and crazy activities because it's what needed to be done. So just know that that's a part of it and part of the journey.

stay true to your mission. don't chase the dollar, be who you are. And my motto that I used to have,

printed in front of me, need to get back out is by JFK. And that's one person can make a difference and every person should try. who are the people we touch in our day to day life? And, you know, what's our circle of influence? And then how does that start to ripple out? But we all can make this world a better place because we had this opportunity to walk this earth.

leading with heart and care and empathy is so let people know that they're seen, let people know that they matter, let people know that you're gonna show up for them, that it's not just a one-time interaction. So being intentional, is empathy and action.

there's more grief than ever. There's life grief on top of death grief.

We need to pivot, we need to be agile, we need to respond. now done it with, we had some camps for suicide loss, the same thing. And now we see the need for loss by overdose. So compassion into action is what empathy is all about. And it's really with the heart of us helping grieving children. That's our core, our true north.

C.J. Stermer (27:00)
Right.

you said the importance of being agile, right? about the importance of being agile and the willingness to change and evolve based on the need.

Lynne Hughes (27:12)
can't just keep doing the same thing as the world has changed and technology has changed and kids' mental health has changed. And so, you need to keep adapting and worse we're today, even thinking of what does it look like down the road and.

What does technology look like or what is camp in the future? What else do we need to ideate on so that we can keep reaching grieving kids in multiple ways?

C.J. Stermer (27:35)
Right, you can't just keep doing the same thing over and over and over again. We have to evolve with the needs of our kids and what is changing in their lives. That's such a really good point. Lynn, I am so humbled and so grateful to hear the amazing work that you're doing. You we often talk about the prevention in our work, but we never really talk about when these things do happen. What

happens afterwards. just thank you so much for for championing for the youth and the way that you all do. You know, you've helped thousands and thousands of young people in states all across the country process their grief to become better humans because of that. So I just I'm really grateful for your organization, it's comfort zone camp.org figure out how you can get involved when

Thank you so much for your time today.

Lynne Hughes (28:19)
Thank you so much. My pleasure.